Archives for category: Islam

1. The Bible tells us that Ishmael, son of Abraham through his second wife Hagar (Genesis 16:3), was sent away with his mother to the ”east” where he settled and started his own family. We also read that Abraham was distressed when he was asked to send Ishmael away(Genesis 21:11-13) and that God was ”with” Ishmael as he was growing up (Genesis 21:20).

Though the Bible mentions nothing about Ishmael’s life as an adult, it does record that Ishmael was present at Abraham’s funeral (Genesis 25:9). From this event, the following can be gathered:
a) Ishmael maintained a close bond with his father and step-brother. How else could he have heard of Abraham’s passing? And why else would he travel back to the land of his birth to attend a funeral?
b) Ishmael was most certainly worshiping the God of Abraham; he did not return to bury Abraham as a polytheist/idolater. The same cannot be said of Abraham’s other sons through Keturah, as they were not present at the funeral.
c) Ishmael would have certainly raised his children to worship the God of Abraham; he would have established a community of monotheists away from the land of Canaan where Abraham and Isaac lived.

2. Abraham did not send Ishmael away and forget about him. Rabbinic traditions and the 21st chapter of the Book of Jasher (referred to in 2Samuel 1:18 and Joshua 10:13) mention Abraham’s travels to the land where Ishmael lived. In summary:

Afterward Abraham went to see Ishmael, and, according to his promise to Sarah, stopped at his son’s tent without alighting from his camel. Ishmael was not within; his wife refused Abraham food, and beat her children and cursed her husband within Abraham’s hearing. Abraham thereupon asked her to tell Ishmael when he returned that an old man had asked that he change the peg of the tent. Ishmael understood that it was his father, took the hint, and drove away his wife. He then married another woman, named Faṭimah, who, when three years later Abraham came again to see his son, received him kindly; therefore Abraham asked her to tell Ishmael that the peg was good.
Source: Jewish encyclopedia

3. That Abraham traveled to meet Ishmael is in harmony with the Islamic belief that Abraham built the Kaaba along with Ishmael (Surah 2:127); this event implies that Abraham was physically present with Ishmael in Arabia. Thus, Abraham came to be known in Arabia during the lifetime of Ishmael. The later Arabs fell into idolatry and venerated Abraham, indicating that they had retained the memory of Abraham being their distant ancestor. According to a hadith (Bukhari volume 4, book 55, number 571) the Kaaba, upon conquest by Mohammad, was found to contain images of Abraham and Ishmael – obviously placed by pre-Islamic Arabs.

4. Abraham – through Ishmael – is thus historically linked to the the Kaaba, the Arabs and Islam. There is no denying that the Arabs, like the Israelites, had fallen into idolatry and polytheism; that changed in the 7th century AD when Mohammad conquered Mecca and restored to Arabia the monotheistic worship of the God of Abraham.

The Muslim notion that the Bible is corrupted rests not on personal opinion, but rather on historical facts and evidence manifest within the Bible itself. My intention regarding this post is to simply point out that the main reasons as to why Muslims (and many others) believe the Bible is corrupted and isn’t reliable – at least as the inerrant Word of God.

1. Missing verses
Jesus refers to a previous scripture in John 7:38 when he says “Whoever believes in me, as Scripture has said, rivers of living water will flow from within them”. But the scripture Jesus was quoting from verbatim is nowhere to be found in the Old Testament. Jesus displays a pattern in which he always quoted verses verbatim fro the Old Testament.

Some examples are Luke 4:4 / Deuteronomy 8:3; Luke 4:8 / Deuteronomy 6:13; Luke 4:12 / Deuteronomy 6:16; John 10:34 / Psalm 82:6; Matthew 21:16 / Psalm 8:2. Unless Jesus concocted that statement as being “scriptural”, the only explanation is that passage is missing from the Old Testament.
1 Corinthians 2:9 is yet another example of someone quoting a passage verbatim, that is nowhere to be found in the Old Testament.

Can you honestly blame Muslims for thinking passages are missing from the Bible?

2. Verses added later
Mark 16:9-20, is a crucial has been acknowledged by Christians themselves as having been inserted later. (See Mark 16:9-20 @ Biblegateway). That particular passage has given rise to the dangerous practice of snake handling. The popular Christian website gotquestions  says in an article regarding snake handling: it is not wise to use anything from Mark 16:9-20 as the sole basis for a doctrine or practice. Snake handling is one such example of a dubious concept from Mark 16:9-20″

In Christendom, a similar controversy surrounds Matthew 28:19, which is used as prooftext for the trinity. The fact that these controversies exists imply that the authenticity of that verse is on shaky ground. If we are not to use shaky scriptures as the basis for doctrine/practice, then the ending of Matthew 28 cannot be used as prooftext for the trinity.

Can you honestly blame Muslims for thinking many verses were added later into the Bible?

3. Irreconcilable contradictions
Did Judas buy the field with the silver and then fall to his death in it
– OR –
Did he throw the silver and hang himself before somebody else bought the field in which he was buried?

Even a child can understand they are 2 different sequences of events. So why can’t adults, especially those interested in theology? Both can’t be simultaneously true; it would be insulting to anybody’s intelligence to claim they are both the same event. Judas’ death is but one example; there are many more which I will not get into here.

Can you honestly blame Muslims for thinking the Bible contains irreconcilably contradictory messages?

4. Usage of Greek, a non-Semitic language
The Biblical books pertaining to Jesus’ life and teachings were not written in the original language of Jesus and his followers – Aramaic and Hebrew. Yet, the earliest manuscripts of the Gospels (and other books) are in Greek, implying they were written not by the original Hebrew apostles, but rather by Greek converts for Greek converts, or for the purpose of converting Greeks. It is illogical to conclude that Jesus’ disciples and followers, spoke in one language and wrote in another.

Can you honestly blame Muslims for thinking the original message of Jesus in the Bible was distorted or lost in translation to Greek?

5. Second or third hand accounts

Luke admits his account was “handed down to us by those who from the first were eyewitnesses…” (Luke 1).

Another thing to consider is that none of the disciples were present during many key events recorded in the gospels – Jesus’ prayer at Gethsemane, the trial before the Sanhedrin, the conversation with Pilate and to an extent, the crucifixion. The details of these events could have only made it to the final text via second and third hand accounts.

Can you honestly blame Muslims for thinking the Bible contains second/third hand accounts?

6. Apocryphal books

Since the Bible was compiled over a long period of around 2,000 years, many books have been written about with regard to the Israelite religion or the teachings of Jesus. Yet, not everything made it to the final canon; today we call them “Apocrypha”. Whether or not they made it into the final canon rested on the whims of a few who had the authority to decide on this matter. So when you claim the modern Bible is the inspired Word of God, you are basically endorsing the decisions of those who approved the final canon. How many of the non-Canonical apocryphal books are genuine yet were denied a place in the final canon? How many of them are still waiting to be discovered?

Can you honestly blame Muslims for thinking that the Bible may not contain the entire truth? And that the truth may lie in the books outside of Biblical canon?

7. Roman handling of scripture

This is by far the most important reason – at least for me – to reject the Bible as a reliable scripture. It is a historically established fact that the Romans took complete control of a religion whose scripture originated in the Middle East. The Romans pretty much owned Christianity for centuries:

– They usurped Christianity as a state religion
– They completely violated even the basic commands not to make images for worship
– They held the council of Nicea to determine crucial aspects of doctrine by vote
– They declared Latin as the official language of (what was originally) a Semitic religion
– They brutally crushed all rebellion against the RCC
– They kept the Bible out of public hands

In light of the above, it is simply delusional to expect that the Romans, who for centuries enforced control over Christianity, miraculously stopped short of altering it by adding to or mutilating it. The implication of Roman involvement in Christianity is that the Israelite religion fell into the hands of a pagan people who had a history of brutally persecuting Christians. The Romans took control over an Israelite religion and then completely defiled it in whatever way they willed.

Can you honestly blame Muslims for thinking that the Bible was further corrupted by the hands of the Romans? And that the Bible (and Christianity) we have today is a legacy of the RCC?

Conclusion
I am not saying the Bible does not contain truth in it. However, given the points raised in this thread, my only contention is that the Bible contains truth albeit mixed with falsehoods that resulted from translation errors, textual distortions, additions, erroneous accounts etc. In light of all the points raised in this thread, any person – regardless of his religious background – reaches the conclusion that the Bible is unreliable.

So can you honestly blame Muslims for holding that the Bible is an essentially unreliable scripture?

In this thread, I would like to discuss Zephaniah 3:9,  a rather obscure verse that prophesies the coming of Islam. Below is the verse as it appears in three different translations:

For then will I turn to the people a pure language, that they may all call upon the name of the LORD, to serve him with one consent (King James Version)

“For then I will give to the peoples purified lips, That all of them may call on the name of the LORD, To serve Him shoulder to shoulder (New American Standard Version)

“Then I will purify the lips of the peoples, that all of them may call on the name of the Lord and serve him shoulder to shoulder (New International Version)

Pay attention to the keywords underlined in the above verse. Upon understanding the meanings of those words in Hebrew we see that the passage is foretelling a time when people, standing shoulder to shoulder (in unity), would call upon God in a “pure language”. In order to analyze the keywords in that verse, I will – God willing – present the word, its Hebrew equivalent, a link to a Bible lexicon, examples of the word used in other places and a short comment. To verify the actual meanings of the word in question, please look up the passages where the word is used in other contexts.

1. “People”
The Hebrew word used is “am” (Strongs word number: 5971)
Meaning: people, nation, persons, members of one’s people, compatriots, country-men, kinsman, kindred
(Other uses: Genesis 11:6, Genesis 17:6)
Comment: Though addressed to the Israelites, the Hebrew word for “people” also refers to people in general, as opposed to any one particular ethnicity.

2. “Pure”
The Hebrew word used is “Barar” (Strongs word number: 1305)
Meaning: to purify, select, polish, choose, purge, cleanse or make bright, test or prove
(Other uses : Daniel 11:35; Daniel 12:10)

3. “Language”
The Hebrew word used is “Saphah” (Strongs word number: 8193)
Meanings: lip, language, speech, shore, bank, brink, brim, side, edge, border, binding
(Other uses : Genesis 11:6-7, Genesis 11:9)
Comment: The word  can also mean physical “lips”. But in the context of the verse, the word refers to a pure language. This points towards the use of a common liturgical language that is used by all worshipers.

4. “Call upon”
The Hebrew word used is “Qara” (Strongs word number : 7121)
Meanings: to call, call out, recite, read, cry out, proclaim
(Other uses: Exodus 1:18, Genesis 12:8)
Comment: In a new language, will people call upon God. The above meanings apply to Muslims who literally call out to God during the call to prayer; and who recite praises to God in prayer and even in everyday speech.

5. “One consent” / “Shoulder to shoulder”
The Hebrew word used is “shekem” (Strongs word number: 7926)
Meanings: shoulder, back shoulder, shoulder-blade, back
(Other uses: Genesis 21:14, Genesis 24:45)
Comment: This suggests unity in worship. This unity can only be achieved if adherents of the religion pray in the same way, use the same language and pray at the same time. This unity in worship is flawlessly reflected in Islam, where Muslims literally stand shoulder to shoulder in prayer.

In light of the above, Zephaniah 3:9 is speaking of an “update” to the monotheistic religion of the worship of the God  of Abraham. It points towards a time when the worship of God would take place in a new language, with worshipers displaying a sense of unity. Since the Hebrew speaking Israelites are being told of a “pure language”, as opposed to, say, “your language” or “the Hebrew language”, it must refer to a language other than the Hebrew language of the Israelites. Besides Hebrew, the Arabic language is the ONLY other language that is liturgically used throughout the world in the worship of the God of Abraham. And what religion utilizes Arabic? Only Islam.

The unity in worship spoken of in Zephaniah 3:9 cannot be fulfilled in Christianity, a religion whose adherents around the world pray to God in their own language, in different ways and during different times. However, the unity of worship spoken of in Zephaniah 3:9 is most certainly fulfilled in Islam. Even though Arabs comprise only 20% of the worlds Muslim population, practising Muslims the world over, regardless of their own language and ethnicity, pray in Arabic even if they themselves can’t speak Arabic in conversation.

This is undoubtedly a prophecy, like many others, that has been fulfilled in the coming of Islam.

Here I have listed a number of youtube videos in which Rabbis and practising Jews from different parts of the world speak on Islam and Allah.

Since Christians have an affinity towards Jews, who also have the Old Testament (TaNaKh), I thought it would be better to let the Jews explain to their Christian friends the truth that Allah is the God of the Torah. But of course, the truth about Islam and Allah remains regardless of what a Jew or anybody else thinks.

Now, not all Jews feel the same way. Indeed, there exists a diversity of views on this subject among Jews; but it still remains that many practicing Jews recognize that the concept of God in Islam and Judaism are identical.

(Disclaimer  :  Please note that I may not agree with the views of these Rabbis on various other matters.)

 

Jewish Rabbi Praises Islam

Jewish Rabbi Admits Islam Is The Oldest Religion

Jewish Rabbi: Islam is religion of future

Jewish Rabbi Admits Muslims Are Blessed (interviewed by John Pastor Hagee)

Jewish Rabbi Worships Allah

Jew explains why Allah is the one and only God

Jew explains Allah – God of ISRAEL

 

Enjoy!

“The Hour will not be established-till the people of the desert (the camel shepherds) compete with one another in constructing high buildings.” 



1. Skeptics deem prophecies about increase in wars, disasters and immorality as being too ”vague” to be taken seriously, and therefore not enough to identify someone as a true prophet foretelling the future. 

However, there are other prophecies that accurately describe events and life in our modern world. One such prophecy that stands out is the one made by Mohammad foretelling that the desert dwelling Arabs – once simple sheep and camel herders living in tents – would be competing in the construction of tall buildings. Today we have what we call ”skyscrapers”, located not just in developed Western cities in North America, but even in Arab lands, places that are once mostly dry and barren with people living in simple houses and tents. 


2A. The morality of these lavish displays of wealth are besides the point and out of the scope of this thread. Observant Muslims understand that lavish displays of wealth and extravagance are against Islamic principles. Mohammad knew that 1400 years from his time, desert dwelling Arabs – who according to Islam were to shun extravagance – would be competing in the construction of tall buildings! In fact, it is only within the last 3 decades or so, that skyscrapers and highrise buildings filled the skylines of major Arab cities. The key word here is ”compete”, which in the given context suggests constructions for the sake of status and prestige, as opposed to addressing practical needs. To my surprise, I recently learned that there IS such a thing called a ”skyscraper competition”! 



One would have to be either blind or willfully ignorant (and I will absolutely NOT waste my time in dealing with either type)…. to deny that Mohammads prophecy about competitions to build tall buildings has been fulfilled 100%. The people of the desert have competed to build tall buildings. Given the prophecy, it is absolutely no co-incidence that the worlds tallest skyscraper, the worlds tallest lighthouse and the worlds tallest clocktower are all in Arab lands. 


2B. Whats really interesting is that Saudi Arabia has announced plans to gigantic 1 kilometer tall tower, that would be  The Kingdom Tower 

Kingdom Tower (Arabic: برج المملكة‎‎ Burj al Mamlakah), previously known as Mile-High Tower, (Arabic: برج الميل‎‎), is a skyscraper currently under construction in Jeddah, Saudi Arabia……. that will be located along the Red Sea on the north side of Jeddah. If completed as planned, the tower will reach unprecedented heights, becoming the tallest building in the world, as well as the first structure to reach the one-kilometre-high mark.



The recent announcement of the tower has provoked widespread and highly divided reaction throughout the media. Those who support the project see it as an investment that, although visionary, will have positive social and economic effects on the area as well as the country in the long term, while others see it as nothing more than the result of self-centered and attention seeking competition between oil-rich gulf nations that will serve no purpose other than as a white elephant, costing more and generating less than expected, if it even gets built.


3. The Arab skyscraper prophecy is important because its fulfillment (among certain other prophecies not covered in this thread)… signals the beginning of the end times. The implications of this is that the timing of the beginning of the end times is no longer a matter of speculation and conjecture. Rather, it has been confirmed that we have been living in the end times for quite some time now. 


And God knows best!

 http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread1013873/pg1

The almost sudden transformation of Arabia from a cesspool of idolatry to a shining example of Abrahamic Monotheism is nothing less than a miracle. One can expect the Bible to speak of this event from a prophetic perspective. But exactly what part of the Bible points to the rise of Islam and the warrior-prophet who established it?

Isaiah 42 confirms the arrival of a certain servant of God who :

a) Was called the “light of the Gentiles”… 
No Israelite prophet fits this. Not even Jesus, who said that he came only the lost sheep of Israel. This chapter is speaking about a servant of God who dealt with gentiles, who were towalk in ways they had not known before,(more on this later) which the former idolatrous Arabs most definitely were.

b) Influenced the people of Kedar, Sela and the wilderness… 
Let the wilderness and its towns raise their voices; let the settlements where Kedar lives rejoice. Let the people of Sela sing for joy; let them shout from the mountaintops. Let them give glory to the Lord 
Kedar = son of Ishmael, ancestor of the Arabs
Sela = Mountain in Medina where Mohammad fought a battle (wiki)
Wilderness = The harsh regions where the Arabs lived
This is a crystal-clear reference to the geographical area where Mohammad operated. No Israelite prophet had anything to do with these regions, at least not to the extent of Mohammad.

c) Worked single-mindedly towards completing his mission…
he will not falter or be discouraged till he establishes justice on earth.
Mohammad indeed campaigned against great odds. He endured insults and abuses and was called a madman by those who opposed his call to Monotheism. He could have easily given up at any point. But instead of faltering or becoming discouraged, he succeeded in ending idolatry and established the worship of the One true God, declaring “None has the right to be worshiped but Allah”. The law that he established over the Arabs,  also served as a judicial system.

d) Was instrumental in fighting Gods war…
The Lord will march out like a champion, like a warrior he will stir up his zeal; with a shout he will raise the battle cry and will triumph over his enemies.
Obviously, God isn’t going to personally march out or raise a battle cry. Mohammad was Gods instrument of war. His victories were victories of God, not his own.

e) Was instrumental in shaming the idolaters… 
But those who trust in idols, who say to images, ‘You are our gods,’ will be turned back in utter shame. 
Mohammad indeed shamed the idolaters when he won and destroyed their idols and established Islam. They, being Mohammads mortal enemies, would have felt even more ashamed when Mohammad forgave them after his final victory over them. Mohammads victory over the idolaters was the fulfillment of this prophecy. It is what God meant when He said “I will not yield my glory to another or my praise to idols.”.

f) Was instrumental in leading the people through new ways… 
I will lead the blind by ways they have not known,along unfamiliar paths I will guide them;
I will turn the darkness into light before them 

This is what happened when Mohammad established Islam. The former idolaters left their old ways behind and were indeed led by ways they had not known. The former idolaters accepted a religion that worshiped the One True God and revered the prophets and accepted Jesus as the Messiah.

Today, there are no more worshipers of graven images left in Arabia, so nobody is going to come along to “shame them”. The people of Kedar and the wilderness have already rejoiced. The darkness of idolatry has already turned to the light of pure Monotheism. All these prophecies have already been fulfilled with Mohammad and so it confirms that Mohammad was a “Biblical” prophet. I have presented incontrovertible evidence not from the Koran, but from the Bible itself that shows events in Islamic history were prophesied by God. So when you deny this, you deny the prophecies in your own Bibles. If you believe somebody else fits the descriptions of the servant of God of Isaiah 42, go ahead and post it along with your proofs.

Christians had a 600 year long headstart before Mohammads arrival. They had the scriptures, the time and the armies to Christianize Arabia, like Europe. They even failed to carry out the mandate of “go and make disciples of all nations”, with regard to their Arabian neighbours. And so they have no right to object or criticize Mohammads achievments in ending idolatry and establishing a religion that worshiped the God of Abraham and revered Jesus as Messiah. This is what God wanted and Gods Will was indeed carried out on earth by Mohammad, the servant of Isaiah 42. God knows best.

(If I say something that is right, then God has inspired me. If I say something that is wrong, then it is my own mistake.)

cru·ci·fy 
To put (a person) to death by nailing or binding to a cross. 

Part 1 : The Biblical account of the crucifixion 

1) The Christian account of the crucifixion is that Jews demanded from Pontius Pilate the death sentence for Jesus, following which the Roman executioners carried out the crucifixion – a standard Roman execution procedure at that time. This implies that the Messiah, Jesus was killed at the hands of men – the Roman executioners who nailed him to the cross and more importantly, the Jewish priests who wanted him dead.

2) John 10:18 opposes the idea of Jesus having his life taken by men. Here Jesus makes a fascinating declaration, that he – with God-given authority – was in charge of his own life and that no man could take his life away from him. The exact verse is as follows :

No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father. – John 10:18

3) The implications of John 10:18 is that Jesus could not have been truly “killed” by men, whether the Roman executioners or the Jewish priests. If it were so, then Jesus’ declaration that no man could take his life would be severely contradicted. In light of John 10:18, Jesus would have laid his life down on his own, only to take it back in the tomb after which, he ascended to God, but he did not die of the crucifixion, and nobody killed him.

Part 2 – The Islamic account of the crucifixion compared to the Biblical account. 

1) The Koran assertively declares that Jesus was not killed, but that Allah raised Jesus up to himself.

That they said (in boast), “We killed Christ Jesus the son of Mary, the Messenger of Allah”;- but they killed him not, nor crucified him, but so it was made to appear to them, and those who differ therein are full of doubts, with no (certain) knowledge, but only conjecture to follow for of a surety they killed him not. Nay! Allah took him up to Himself; and Allah is Mighty, Wise. – Koran 4:157-158 
(“They” and “them” refers to the Jews.)

2a) The above verses are often (mis)interpreted as meaning that Jesus was not personally taken up to the cross, and that somebody else was transformed to look like Jesus and mistakenly crucified in place of Jesus. This happens to be the popular interpretation of the Korans statement on the crucifixion. However, what if the above verses are actually fully in line with the sayings of Jesus and the Biblical account of the crucifixion? I will comment on the underlined parts of the verses, (But only Allah best knows the meanings)

2b) “they killed him not, nor crucified him” : Lets be clear first that to “crucify” is to KILL. It doesn’t mean to merely nail someone to a cross and leave it open ended. The 2 thieves died of the crucifixion and stayed dead. You could legitimately say that they were “killed / crucified”.

Jesus however, is exempt from falling the same category as the thieves for 2 reasons:
First, his own declaration in John 10:18 holds that no one could take his life from him and that he could lay down life on his own. And according to the Gospels, Jesus indeed laid down his life after he said “Father, into your hands I commit my spirit.” (Luke 23:46). Second, Jesus had authority to take back his own life. His resurrection in the tomb and ascension are well known. Putting the two together, we see that it echoes the Koranic statements that “they killed him not, nor crucified him…Allah took him up to Himself”.

2c. “but so it was made to appear to them” : To the Jews (and everybody else) looking on, it would have appeared as if he “died” as a result of the crucifixion But unbeknownst to them, Jesus had laid his own life, as he said he could and therefore, unlike the 2 thieves, did not die as a natural result of the crucifixion.

2d) “but only conjecture to follow” : The Jews remained convinced that Jesus was dead, and even spread rumors that Jesus “dead body” was stolen from the tomb by his disciples. Matthew 28:11 says that this story “has been widely circulated among the Jews to this very day”. The Talmud supposedly contains a reference to the crucifixion and Jews continue to believe they executed a false prophet, but Christians know that was resurrected and ascended to God.

2e) “Allah took him up to Himself” : This does not need any further commentary, because its also the Christian view that Jesus ascended to God (John 20:17).

Part 3 : Conclusion
1. Jesus’ statement in John 10:18, “no man can take my life” corroborates the Korans statement that he was not killed/crucified.

“No man can take my life” = Jesus could NOT have been killed by men.
“I lay it down on my own” = Jesus did NOT suffer death by crucifixion like the thieves.
“I can take it back” = Jesus took it back in the tomb, or rather God returned his life back to him.

Reading the crucifixion in light of John 10:18, Jesus laid his own life and did not die by the hands of men carrying out the crucifixion. Nailed to the cross, yes. Died of the crucifixion, no. Jesus came back to life and ascended to God.

2. Hence, the Korans few sentences on the crucifixion, “they killed him not” … “but it was made to appear to them” … “having only conjecture to follow”…”Allah took him up to Himself”… elegantly summarizes the Bibles long account of Jesus’ “death”, the Jews storymongering and his ascent. We see that the Koran does not contradict the Bibles account of the crucifixion, but instead condenses it to a few short, crisp and poetic sentences.

Related verses from Bible : John 10:18, Luke 23:46, Matthew 28:11, John 20:17
Related verses from Koran : Koran 4:157-158

http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread993537/pg1