Archives for posts with tag: Bible

The Muslim notion that the Bible is corrupted rests not on personal opinion, but rather on historical facts and evidence manifest within the Bible itself. My intention regarding this post is to simply point out that the main reasons as to why Muslims (and many others) believe the Bible is corrupted and isn’t reliable – at least as the inerrant Word of God.

1. Missing verses
Jesus refers to a previous scripture in John 7:38 when he says “Whoever believes in me, as Scripture has said, rivers of living water will flow from within them”. But the scripture Jesus was quoting from verbatim is nowhere to be found in the Old Testament. Jesus displays a pattern in which he always quoted verses verbatim fro the Old Testament.

Some examples are Luke 4:4 / Deuteronomy 8:3; Luke 4:8 / Deuteronomy 6:13; Luke 4:12 / Deuteronomy 6:16; John 10:34 / Psalm 82:6; Matthew 21:16 / Psalm 8:2. Unless Jesus concocted that statement as being “scriptural”, the only explanation is that passage is missing from the Old Testament.
1 Corinthians 2:9 is yet another example of someone quoting a passage verbatim, that is nowhere to be found in the Old Testament.

Can you honestly blame Muslims for thinking passages are missing from the Bible?

2. Verses added later
Mark 16:9-20, is a crucial has been acknowledged by Christians themselves as having been inserted later. (See Mark 16:9-20 @ Biblegateway). That particular passage has given rise to the dangerous practice of snake handling. The popular Christian website gotquestions  says in an article regarding snake handling: it is not wise to use anything from Mark 16:9-20 as the sole basis for a doctrine or practice. Snake handling is one such example of a dubious concept from Mark 16:9-20″

In Christendom, a similar controversy surrounds Matthew 28:19, which is used as prooftext for the trinity. The fact that these controversies exists imply that the authenticity of that verse is on shaky ground. If we are not to use shaky scriptures as the basis for doctrine/practice, then the ending of Matthew 28 cannot be used as prooftext for the trinity.

Can you honestly blame Muslims for thinking many verses were added later into the Bible?

3. Irreconcilable contradictions
Did Judas buy the field with the silver and then fall to his death in it
– OR –
Did he throw the silver and hang himself before somebody else bought the field in which he was buried?

Even a child can understand they are 2 different sequences of events. So why can’t adults, especially those interested in theology? Both can’t be simultaneously true; it would be insulting to anybody’s intelligence to claim they are both the same event. Judas’ death is but one example; there are many more which I will not get into here.

Can you honestly blame Muslims for thinking the Bible contains irreconcilably contradictory messages?

4. Usage of Greek, a non-Semitic language
The Biblical books pertaining to Jesus’ life and teachings were not written in the original language of Jesus and his followers – Aramaic and Hebrew. Yet, the earliest manuscripts of the Gospels (and other books) are in Greek, implying they were written not by the original Hebrew apostles, but rather by Greek converts for Greek converts, or for the purpose of converting Greeks. It is illogical to conclude that Jesus’ disciples and followers, spoke in one language and wrote in another.

Can you honestly blame Muslims for thinking the original message of Jesus in the Bible was distorted or lost in translation to Greek?

5. Second or third hand accounts

Luke admits his account was “handed down to us by those who from the first were eyewitnesses…” (Luke 1).

Another thing to consider is that none of the disciples were present during many key events recorded in the gospels – Jesus’ prayer at Gethsemane, the trial before the Sanhedrin, the conversation with Pilate and to an extent, the crucifixion. The details of these events could have only made it to the final text via second and third hand accounts.

Can you honestly blame Muslims for thinking the Bible contains second/third hand accounts?

6. Apocryphal books

Since the Bible was compiled over a long period of around 2,000 years, many books have been written about with regard to the Israelite religion or the teachings of Jesus. Yet, not everything made it to the final canon; today we call them “Apocrypha”. Whether or not they made it into the final canon rested on the whims of a few who had the authority to decide on this matter. So when you claim the modern Bible is the inspired Word of God, you are basically endorsing the decisions of those who approved the final canon. How many of the non-Canonical apocryphal books are genuine yet were denied a place in the final canon? How many of them are still waiting to be discovered?

Can you honestly blame Muslims for thinking that the Bible may not contain the entire truth? And that the truth may lie in the books outside of Biblical canon?

7. Roman handling of scripture

This is by far the most important reason – at least for me – to reject the Bible as a reliable scripture. It is a historically established fact that the Romans took complete control of a religion whose scripture originated in the Middle East. The Romans pretty much owned Christianity for centuries:

– They usurped Christianity as a state religion
– They completely violated even the basic commands not to make images for worship
– They held the council of Nicea to determine crucial aspects of doctrine by vote
– They declared Latin as the official language of (what was originally) a Semitic religion
– They brutally crushed all rebellion against the RCC
– They kept the Bible out of public hands

In light of the above, it is simply delusional to expect that the Romans, who for centuries enforced control over Christianity, miraculously stopped short of altering it by adding to or mutilating it. The implication of Roman involvement in Christianity is that the Israelite religion fell into the hands of a pagan people who had a history of brutally persecuting Christians. The Romans took control over an Israelite religion and then completely defiled it in whatever way they willed.

Can you honestly blame Muslims for thinking that the Bible was further corrupted by the hands of the Romans? And that the Bible (and Christianity) we have today is a legacy of the RCC?

Conclusion
I am not saying the Bible does not contain truth in it. However, given the points raised in this thread, my only contention is that the Bible contains truth albeit mixed with falsehoods that resulted from translation errors, textual distortions, additions, erroneous accounts etc. In light of all the points raised in this thread, any person – regardless of his religious background – reaches the conclusion that the Bible is unreliable.

So can you honestly blame Muslims for holding that the Bible is an essentially unreliable scripture?

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In this thread, I would like to discuss Zephaniah 3:9,  a rather obscure verse that prophesies the coming of Islam. Below is the verse as it appears in three different translations:

For then will I turn to the people a pure language, that they may all call upon the name of the LORD, to serve him with one consent (King James Version)

“For then I will give to the peoples purified lips, That all of them may call on the name of the LORD, To serve Him shoulder to shoulder (New American Standard Version)

“Then I will purify the lips of the peoples, that all of them may call on the name of the Lord and serve him shoulder to shoulder (New International Version)

Pay attention to the keywords underlined in the above verse. Upon understanding the meanings of those words in Hebrew we see that the passage is foretelling a time when people, standing shoulder to shoulder (in unity), would call upon God in a “pure language”. In order to analyze the keywords in that verse, I will – God willing – present the word, its Hebrew equivalent, a link to a Bible lexicon, examples of the word used in other places and a short comment. To verify the actual meanings of the word in question, please look up the passages where the word is used in other contexts.

1. “People”
The Hebrew word used is “am” (Strongs word number: 5971)
Meaning: people, nation, persons, members of one’s people, compatriots, country-men, kinsman, kindred
(Other uses: Genesis 11:6, Genesis 17:6)
Comment: Though addressed to the Israelites, the Hebrew word for “people” also refers to people in general, as opposed to any one particular ethnicity.

2. “Pure”
The Hebrew word used is “Barar” (Strongs word number: 1305)
Meaning: to purify, select, polish, choose, purge, cleanse or make bright, test or prove
(Other uses : Daniel 11:35; Daniel 12:10)

3. “Language”
The Hebrew word used is “Saphah” (Strongs word number: 8193)
Meanings: lip, language, speech, shore, bank, brink, brim, side, edge, border, binding
(Other uses : Genesis 11:6-7, Genesis 11:9)
Comment: The word  can also mean physical “lips”. But in the context of the verse, the word refers to a pure language. This points towards the use of a common liturgical language that is used by all worshipers.

4. “Call upon”
The Hebrew word used is “Qara” (Strongs word number : 7121)
Meanings: to call, call out, recite, read, cry out, proclaim
(Other uses: Exodus 1:18, Genesis 12:8)
Comment: In a new language, will people call upon God. The above meanings apply to Muslims who literally call out to God during the call to prayer; and who recite praises to God in prayer and even in everyday speech.

5. “One consent” / “Shoulder to shoulder”
The Hebrew word used is “shekem” (Strongs word number: 7926)
Meanings: shoulder, back shoulder, shoulder-blade, back
(Other uses: Genesis 21:14, Genesis 24:45)
Comment: This suggests unity in worship. This unity can only be achieved if adherents of the religion pray in the same way, use the same language and pray at the same time. This unity in worship is flawlessly reflected in Islam, where Muslims literally stand shoulder to shoulder in prayer.

In light of the above, Zephaniah 3:9 is speaking of an “update” to the monotheistic religion of the worship of the God  of Abraham. It points towards a time when the worship of God would take place in a new language, with worshipers displaying a sense of unity. Since the Hebrew speaking Israelites are being told of a “pure language”, as opposed to, say, “your language” or “the Hebrew language”, it must refer to a language other than the Hebrew language of the Israelites. Besides Hebrew, the Arabic language is the ONLY other language that is liturgically used throughout the world in the worship of the God of Abraham. And what religion utilizes Arabic? Only Islam.

The unity in worship spoken of in Zephaniah 3:9 cannot be fulfilled in Christianity, a religion whose adherents around the world pray to God in their own language, in different ways and during different times. However, the unity of worship spoken of in Zephaniah 3:9 is most certainly fulfilled in Islam. Even though Arabs comprise only 20% of the worlds Muslim population, practising Muslims the world over, regardless of their own language and ethnicity, pray in Arabic even if they themselves can’t speak Arabic in conversation.

This is undoubtedly a prophecy, like many others, that has been fulfilled in the coming of Islam.

1. Introduction to the whore
The book of revelation is known to contain a lot of symbolic imagery. One of these symbols happens to be a “whore”, adorned in scarlet and gold. She is depicted as sitting on a beast with 7 heads and 10 horns (the same as the first beast) and is drunk with the blood of saints and prophets. In the same chapter we also read that the seven horns represent seven hills, and towards the end of the chapter, the whore is revealed to be a city. Bear in mind this imagery, as we will be going over them one by one.

2. Using the Bible to identify the whore
A lot of Christians identify the “whore” or the city as being related to the Vatican city or Catholicism. This is a falsehood perpetrated by those with an anti-Catholic bias. I am not defending the Catholic church, but the claim that the “whore” is the Vatican is simply not in line with what the Bible teaches.

Anybody who is serious about deciphering the Biblical concept of the “whore” needs to use the Bible as a guide… not their own imaginations and biases. Going by the verses in revelations 17:18, we know that the whore represents a certain city. This city can be profiled as having the following traits:
a) Has the blood of saints and holy men
b) Sits on seven hills
c) Adorned in scarlet and gold / killed by her lovers

The key to Biblically identifying the whore is to pinpoint exactly what city in the Bible matches all of the whores traits. Upon reading the Bible, we learn that there is only one entity in the entire Bible that matches up to the whores description. Jerusalem.

If we were to go over the whores traits and compare it to Jerusalem, we see that :

a) Jerusalem – killer of saints and holy men
Jesus himself said of Jerusalem…

Thus you witness against yourselves that you are sons of those who murdered the prophets
-Matthew 23:29-31

That upon you may come all the righteous blood shed upon the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel unto the blood of Zacharias son of Barachias, whom ye slew between the temple and the altar.
-Matthew 23:35

“O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, you who kill the prophets and stone those sent to you,
-Matthew 23:37

Only Jerusalem is accused of the same crime as the whore… of having spilled the blood of holy men and saints. This alone should be enough to establish the identity of the whore as Jerusalem.

b) Jerusalem – a city on seven hills.
Jerusalem makes the list of List of cities claimed to be built on seven hills

– The northern summit (hill) is called Scopus (Hill One)
– The middle summit (hill) was called Nob (Hill Two)
– The highest point of Olivet itself, and the southern summit (hill) was called in the Holy Scriptures the “Mount of Corruption” or “Mount of Offence” (Hill Three)
– On the middle ridge between the Kedron and the Tyropoeon Valleys there was (formerly) in the south “Mount Zion” (Hill Four)
– The “Ophel Mount” (Hill Five)
– To the north of that the “Rock” around which “Fort Antonia” was built (Hill Six),
– The southwest hill itself (Hill Seven)

c) Jerusalem – Adorned in scarlet and gold / Killed by her lovers
First, these are the colors associated with the “priesthood” who Jesus condemned.

Have them use gold, and blue, purple and scarlet yarn, and fine linen.
“Make the ephod of gold, and of blue, purple and scarlet yarn, and of finely twisted linen—the work of skilled hands. It is to have two shoulder pieces attached to two of its corners, so it can be fastened. Its skillfully woven waistband is to be like it—of one piece with the ephod and made with gold, and with blue, purple and scarlet yarn, and with finely twisted linen.
-Exodus 28:5-8

“Fashion a breastpiece for making decisions—the work of skilled hands. Make it like the ephod: of gold, and of blue, purple
-Exodus 28:15

Make pomegranates of blue, purple and scarlet yarn around the hem of the robe, with goldbells between them
-Exodus 28:33 

www.biblegateway.com…

Gold = mentioned 16 times
Purple = mentioned 5 times
Scarlet = mentioned 5 times

Then, only Jerusalem is described in the Bible as being adorned in scarlet and gold.

We read in Jeremiah:
And you, O desolate one, what will you do? Although you dress in scarlet, Although you decorate yourself with ornaments of gold, Although you enlarge your eyes with paint, In vain you make yourself beautiful; Your lovers despise you; They seek your life. I hear a cry as of a woman in labor, a groan as of one bearing her first child-the cry of the Daughter of Zion gasping for breath, stretching out her hands and saying, “Alas! I am fainting; my life is given over to murderers.”
-Jeremiah 4:30-31

Now compare that verse with these ones in Revelations…

And the woman was clothed in purple and scarlet, and adorned with gold and precious stones and pearls, having in her hand a gold cup full of abominations and of the unclean things of her immorality
– Revelation 17:4

And the ten horns which thou sawest upon the beast, these shall hate the whore, and shall make her desolate and naked, and shall eat her flesh, and burn her with fire.
– Revelations 17:16

“Daughter of zion” is a clear reference to Jerusalem. Just like the whore, she too is described as being adorned in scarlet and gold. And just like the whore, her former lovers turn against her and kill her. The whores is also destroyed by the 10 horns, who are revealed as kings and her former lovers in Revelations 17:2.

Several times im the bible, explicit sexual imagery has been used to describe Jerusalem / Israel’s unfaithfulness. Off the top of my head, 2 entire chapters in the book of Ezekiel describe Israel as a “prostitute”. Ezekiel 16 and Ezekiel 23

3. Jerusalem = the whore = the city of Babylon
Another important point to note is that Revelations 17 ends with the destruction of the whore and the very next chapter details the destruction of a city, Babylon. To put it simply, Jerusalem is the whore… the whore is Babylon, the city that is to be destroyed. We read in Revelations 18 that the destroyed city called “Babylon” is….

Adorned in scarlet and gold…
“‘Woe! Woe to you, great city, dressed in fine linen, purple and scarlet, and glittering with gold, precious stones and pearls!
-Revelations 18:16 

Has the blood of the prophets…
In her was found the blood of prophets and of God’s holy people, of all who have been slaughtered on the earth.”
– Revelations 18:24  

Its a perfect match. The fact that Jerusalem is equated with Babylon is no surprise, considering in Revelations 11:8, Jerusalem is equated to Sodom and Egypt.

We see that the descriptions of Jerusalem perfectly matches that of the whore. It is established that Jerusalem, and no other, is the whore of Revelations 17. Those who insist its the Vatican are either deluded or willfully deny whats there in their own Bibles.

4. Jerusalem – city of sin

Now that it has been biblically established that Jerusalem is the whore of revelations, lets look at the moral state of Jerusalem, the way it is today. For starters, modern day Jerusalem (or Israel for that matter) is not exactly the holy and God fearing Israel, as many Christians falsely assume. Instead, Israel is a hub for gay tourism, with gay pride parades taking place even in Jerusalem, where Jesus and the prophets once walked.

Prostitution is also rampant. Israel reportedly has one of the highest rates of prostitution in the world, with the sex trade raking in nearly $2 Billion a year. Furthermore, adding Israels wickedness, Jesus, the central figure of the Christian religion… is also mocked on national TV. So with all this open homosexuality, prostitution and insulting of Jesus going on… Do Christians really believe that this is the Israel that was prophesied to emerge in the holy land?

Something for pro-Isaeli Christians to ponder over.

I would also like to post this screenshot I took while researching for this thread.

Its interesting how an ad calling for Christians to unite and defend Israel is placed right above a chapter calling for a prophet to confront Jerusalem for its detestable practices

Is it a sign or just amazing irony?

————————————————————————————————–

UPDATE :

Jerusalem has been called a whore even in Ezekiel, under the moniker “Oholibah”…who is directly called a prostitute.

Notice the parallels between Ezekiel 23 and that of Revelations 17.

Ezekiel 23: I will stir up your lovers against you…
They will come against you with weapons,chariots…
I will turn you over to them for punishment…
I will direct my jealous anger against you, and they will deal with you in fury…

Revelations 17 : For God has put it into their hearts to accomplish his purpose…
The beast and the ten horns you saw will hate the prostitute… 


Ezekiel 23 :They will also strip you of your clothes and take your fine jewelry. 

Revelations 17 :They will bring her to ruin and leave her naked; 


Ezekiel 23 :They will cut off your noses and your ears…
those of you who are left will fall by the sword….
and those of you who are left will be consumed by fire. 

Revelations 17 : they will eat her flesh and burn her with fire. 

Fascinating!

http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread923309/pg1